I honestly cannot remember how mine & Sarah’s worlds first collided – I mean, it wasn’t anything romantic like me spilling pickles on her while we waited in line at the grocery check-out. But I just cannot remember who emailed who the first time. Either way, a likely/unlikely blogging friendship struck up & we decided to swap guest blogs since we both write from a completely different perspective of motherhood from both the aspects of experience & candles on our birthday cakes.
But I hope you love her. & I hope we all heed her wisdom. Because sometimes, it takes a village to raise a woman.
______________________________________
When Blair and I first corresponded about a guest post for her blog, I was trying to think about what would best suit you.
First, my name is Sarah Baron, and I am a member of Anonymous8. The Anonymous8 is a group of real women, ages 35-50 who talk about everything, and I DO mean everything. That’s why we’ve chosen to stay anonymous.
We actually spoke about what to write this past weekend during a girl’s night out. Here are 8 things (8 being our favorite number) that we wish someone had advised us when our kids were real little (they are older now). And these 8 things are going to be about you and your other (and not your kids, because they will grow up despite what we all do to them). Remember that we are sharing this because we did not do these things so well ourselves; we wish someone had reminded us to do them.
1. Don’t forget to take care of yourself. So many blogs talk about their beautiful kids so much that I worry as an outsider about how much they have time to do things for themselves. I don’t mean spend hours a day taking care of yourself at the expense of your children. However, treat yourself to something nice on a regular basis, whether that is a bath or a spa day. Your children are much happier when their mom is centered. If this means a walk alone or time alone or a massage once a month, consider this an investment in your mental well-being.
2. Don’t forget your husband. Before you had the ability to produce milk, your husband was the center of your world. Now, those little things with sticky fingers have an awful lot of your attention. Also, when the kids are small, things can be lonely for you. When your husband gets home (assuming you are a SAHM), sometimes you can be pissed that he had a perfectly civilized day and even managed to go to lunch. BEFORE you toss the kids at him when he walks in the door, make sure you pay good attention to him. This may mean listening to him unconditionally (even though you are exploding with things to tell him) when he gets home for a little while before you spill every detail of your toddler’s day and his diaper sagas. Also, a simple email or text telling him that he is your man and that you love him can make a huge difference. Finally, make sure you tell him that you wish you had more time together and make the best of the time that you do have together. http://anonymous8.com/relationship-advice/the-biggest-mistake-wives-make/
3. Your husband needs physical intimacy. Translate – he needs sex. Like you may need a bath or a walk or to talk, he needs that. On a regular bais. http://anonymous8.com/all-about-sex/intimacy-in-marriage/one-mans-view-of-intimacy/
4. Pick your friends carefully. This one is IMPORTANT. A lot of people make their lifelong best friends from their kids’ kindergarten friends and their families. If your friends bash their husbands, you will too. If they work on their marriages, you will also. If they talk about how to spice up their intimate lives, you will try that as well. Friends are really influential, like they were in high school. That never changes.
5. Go out on dates with your husband without the kids (this reinforces 2 and 3). I don’t care if it is after the kids are asleep and you play strip-wii or strip poker or have a picnic on the carpet. You can also go bowling or visit the art museum or go to the parade of homes. http://anonymous8.com/date-night-ideas/ask-a8-keeping-romance/
6. Don’t let the kids take control of your bed for years. BAD idea. We all agreed on this. This is a killer of intimacy. I know there is all this theory on family beds and I get that, but your marital health is the most important thing for your child. They want to see you smile at each other. Period.
7. Your personal grooming – there are some things that you should do while you’re younger and before you get some grey hairs, like any laser hair removal, especially on your hair down there. Here’s the specifics. Laser does NOT work on grey hair. Therefore, when you begin to grey down there, and you will when you grey on top, you will have just spent a fortune only for it to work 99% of the way. For a complete series on Hair Down There, click here. http://anonymous8.com/category/women-body/
8. Do something creative for him in the bedroom at least once a month to give your intimate life a little (it doesn’t need something different every day) variety. Yes, many of us did not start doing this until we were older – thinking outside the box. It shows that you care and he will be delighted. It’s like we became more sure of ourselves once we hit about 38. Wish we had done this earlier – come out of our skins a little. Some examples of this would be strip wii, forgetting to wear underwear on a date night and casually mentioning it at dinner, and making a jar of desires. More thorough descriptions can be found here. http://anonymous8.com/category/all-about-sex/fun-tip-tuesdays/
So, that’s our top 8 recommendations and thoughts for those of you in the little kid trenches. You will survive.
Signing out,
Sarah Baron and the Women of Anonymous8
PS Feel free to join in the discussions any time. That’s what we are all about. Helping each other out and promoting healthy and irreverent progress for you and your other.
I think this is excellent advice. Thank you.
Interesting post. Since I'm a new mom and usually reading blogs of other new moms, it's enlightening to hear about the same topics from a totally different perspective.
This is a very helpful post. I'm so nervous about prepping for the arrival of baby that I haven't even given much thought to how to keep my healthy marriage on track once our world is turned upside down. It's a good reminder that every relationship needs TLC and your relationship with your kid isn't the only one that deserves your focus.
It's so easy to take The Husband for granted so this is a reminder I needed.
What century do we live in? This reminds me of the Good Wife's Guide from 1955 (which is good for a laugh).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Good_Wife's_Gui…
Great advice! It's all important reminders..Realistically, women do really hold things together. As mothers, we definitely go through a struggle of trying to find balance, and despite our independence and ideas, it's easy to lose sight of yourself.
Love this post as all the others, but what great advice!
Thanks for sharing.
Hi, I'm Sarah and the author of the post and I'm pleased you all like it so far. Jennifer, I think you missed the point of the post. All 8 of us have and continue to have careers. We all have children. Let me tell you something – there are a huge number of 39+ yo women and men who are getting divorced because they did not do these things, grew apart from their husbands, and woke up at 40 with the kids entering high school and felt completely disconnected from their husbands and then walked out the door. If this is a callback from the 50s, then we may need to heed some of their wisdom. Plus, if we get the benefits of being able to make choices that women have never had (to career anywhere – to work anywhere), then we really have it all. These are the things we wish others had shared with us looking back.
Great advice!
I'm sad to see articles today that give advice based on outdated and sexist stereotypes. I can guarantee you my husband craves a walk or a bath just as much as I crave sex.
To have this advice imply that a woman is the one that has to make the man happy is condescending and paternal. It takes two to make a marriage work and articles like this only reinforce the insane notion that if a woman was keeping her man happy at home he wouldn't have had the need to cheat and/or divorce her.
I'm not even going to touch on the comment about keeping your pubes in check.
How about an article that encourages a wife to talk to her husband about HER needs, her desire for sex and how He should work to meet her physical needs? How about an article that doesn't imply that women only begrudgingly give their husbands sex? How about an article that considers for a moment the man is supposed to make the wife just as happy in bed as she is supposed to make him?
The Good Wife,
It's Sarah again from Anonymous8. I couldn't agree more. Yes, this goes both ways. Yes, the man is supposed to work at the marriage as much as the woman is. Yes, he is supposed to work on her needs as well. Yes, he is supposed to please her as much as she pleases him. This post was aimed at this audience. If it were a man's blog, it would talk about taking care of his woman and her needs, I promise you that. It takes two to tango.
As far as keeping yourself "in check," if you read the series, we talk about how this is a completely PERSONAL choice. No judgment about personal choices.
I'm sorry you took this the wrong way. That was not our intention.
Thanks,
Sarah Baron
I still think for this audience the article could have been less "give him sex b/c he needs it and if you don't give it to him he will divorce you" and more "you want to have sex so make sure your husband knows and you two work it out."
No worries, I wasn't offended.
actually, a friend just got divorced b/c she wanted more intimacy and didn't get it. if your not getting it enough, maybe you'll walk away, not him. either way it's a disaster if you two are basically good people who used to have something great and started to drift apart – this goes doubly if you have kids. for me, i know that when i make more of an effort, he makes more of an effort. would it be great if he started the "increased effort" stuff? sure. But does it really matter if the end result is now both are invested and making sure the non-mommy/daddy part of your relationship is thriving? Both need to make an effort, but if you both have put tht on the back burner, will you not until he does? is that really in anyones best interest. If he does, awesome! If he doesn't, why not you? I think the point is to make an effort to keep the romance alive. Yes, you are tired, yes, you may have kid spit up on you and it sucks. Do you really want to be reduced to "just mommy mode" and miss that part of you that is a sexy dynamic individual? Do it as much for you as him.
Um, wow. I had to recheck the web address for a second there, because I couldn't imagine that advice this antiquated and sexist made it onto what is usually a very intelligent, witty, empowered blog. So the Super Secret Advice here is to push your needs aside to pay undivided attention to your husband the moment he graces you with his presence, make sure you sex him up enough, tend to your pubes, and put those pesky parasitic kids' needs at the very very bottom of the list? Awesome! This is all gonna work out great!
I ditto the second sara on the comment list (the last commenter so far).
This advice is incredibly outdated, no matter what the author's original intent was. I'm NOT going to begrudgingly have sex with my husband. Ever. And especially not if I'm still doing the lion's share of the work to make it happen (i.e. seeing to his needs before my own, maintaining my body hair for his satisfaction, discussing his day the minute he walks in the door when I may not have even been able to brush my teeth that day). While I do think that sex is important to a marriage, I think it's more important that the partners feel connected through that act. If one person isn't into it, it's not good for either of them. Unless the man is from the Victorian era and views women as his possession. Or a rapist in disguise.
Wow. This is getting heated. I read this list and took what I wanted to from it and left what didn't work for me. Like laser hair removal. Lasers? Near my heehaw? Not for me thanks! But if you're into that, rock on.
The thing reminding me about men needing sex? It also reminded me that I need sex. It reminded me that it's too damn easy for both parties to sink into a couch every night and zone out until bedtime and before you know it, weeks or months have gone by. So it's incumbent upon both partners to look at the other and think "How long has it been? We need this. Let's step it up."
And taking a little time to ask about your spouse's day before you launch into a descriptions of yours? That's Polite Conversation 101. When you meet up with a girlfriend for coffee, you start by saying "How are you?", right? It should be the same with a partner.
That's what I walked away with. It's good advice at its heart. And even if you don't think it's good advice, hating on the author is bad juju. Let's all be a little more supportive of ideas that differ from our own, please?
Wow, judging by the range of comments there's no wonder that divorce rates are as high as they are. That's right, now the debate will get heated. lol
I am a frequent reader of Sarah Baron's work on Anonymous8, one of many Men who read and interact there. I must say this is the first time I took witness to a bra burning party / witch hunt!
For those of you who took offense to the so called outdated 1950's attitudes portrayed allegedly in this artice, perhaps you should look a little deeper into your relationship… or perhaps lack thereof.
I think Sarah B. has a great point, many Men feel completely neglected and put aside once the children come a long. I know, this isn't your concern… it's not about him. Well, that's cool, but eventually it will become a problem.
That is in my opinion why marriages end at such a high rate. The absolute lack of selflessness. People are WAY TOO SELFISH! A marriage, a HAPPY FAMILY isn't a 50/50 proposition, it's 100/100. You can only CONTROL the way you think and act, you can influence the way your husband thinks and acts and vice versa. Think about that for a moment. Instead of being pissed off each time someone implies that it isn't ALL about you, try and think of your happy family, husband included, as part of your responsibility, and just maybe he will think the same about you. You would be amazed at what he thinks he is responsible for.
It takes 2 to succeed in marriage, if one or both is stomping their feet saying its about what I want instead of thinking what does he/she want then it's already over, and your children will be the ones to ultimately suffer.
You'll get over it at some point, they never will.
Oh goodness, Miranda and Sarah,
This is not about him. This is about you.
Never ever have I said to maintain your hair for him. I don’t know a woman who has NOT tried to keep it neat for the bathing suit. Do you clean your bikini line for him? As a matter of fact, I want the kind of man that loves me unconditionally for who I am. Hairy or not. However, if someone had told me about laser earlier, than that would have helped me (and I mean for the bikini line).
I also never said to ignore the kids. That would be horrible. They are my first priority. Heck, I have built my career around their schedule. However, I can tell you that when I had several babies/newborns, I was soooo busy that I did not take care of myself. Last year, I turned 42. I was soooo busy pleasing everyone else that I no longer knew what my favorite restaurant was. Really. I had forgotten to take care of me.
Anonymous8 brought me back to my senses. It was my girlfriends, and I chose well (#4), who helped me rediscover the woman lost when raising several young children. And when I lost myself, I lost myself as a woman as well for me and my husband. My kids have not suffered with my reawakening. Instead, they are pleased with me becoming a woman in full.
That’s what this post is about. How to avoid the same mistakes we made.
What an interesting discussion this has brought up!
Thanks,
Sarah Baron
Good Lord. People love to be offended, don’t they?
I thought it was a great post.
I really, really wish that the ability to reply directly to comments hadn't been disabled for this post. I think it'd make actual discussion of the topic easier.
To Rebekah: Of course it's polite conversation to ask your husband about his day first instead of waiting to be asked about yours. And I'd say that 90% of the time, that's how it happens in my house (and I'd like to point out that I'm not a SAHM. I work all day. So does he.) However, there are days when I haven't even had the opportunity to pee after arriving home. On those days, I can guarantee you that I'll be shoving the babe at him and running to the bathroom. And yes, I might just lock the door and hang out for five minutes to compose myself and my sanity before coming out. And then maybe, just maybe, I'll ask him about his day first. But really, it won't hurt for him to ask about mine before I ask about his. The notion that we should ask about his day before he asks about ours does seem to come straight from the wikipedia link posted earlier. Should I also have a martini and the evening paper ready for him, too? (I promise I'm employing sarcasm and humor here. Not vitriol.)
To andrew: Boy, oh boy. Thank you for implying that my marriage is on the rocks. Or that the marriages of all of those of us who disagreed with this advice is on the rocks, whether jokingly or not. That, quite frankly, is not appreciated. And furthermore, my biggest issue is that I DO try to be selfless. I DO put my husband before myself. I DO put my child before myself. I DO put my job before myself. Sometimes, I even put my DOG before myself. So yes, the issue then becomes that sometimes I DO need it to be all about me. I can only give so much before there is nothing left to give, and I know that there are other women who feel the same. I can assure you that the old adage "If mama ain't happy, ain't nobody happy" didn't come from nowhere, and it has nothing to do with mamas being selfish.
To the author, I agree that your advice, on its face (take care of yourself physically/aesthetically), is genuine. It's solid advice. The days when I'm able to actually fix my hair before work, as opposed to washing, drying, and pulling it into a ponytail, do wonders for my self-esteem. Which does wonders for my libido. Which does wonders for my husband. I get that. I do, however, resent the implication that we should have sex with our husbands just to keep them happy so they won't leave, which is honestly what I got from that point of the article. Feeling like I've received no help and have been a single mom all week doesn't make me want to have sex with him when he's just as capable of getting up in the middle of the night, or cooking dinner, or washing a load of dishes or laundry.
It's incredibly hard to NOT lose yourself, especially with an infant or toddler around. I understand that the advice here is to try not to lose yourself. I just think it could've been packaged differently.
I think it is sad that what you are pushing not losing your identity to your kids but it is ok to lose it to your husband.
As a mother of 2 kids, ages 5 and 1, and a happily married woman let me give you some advice that fits parents of this century.
1.) Make time for yourself.
2.) Set goals with your spouse and work toward them
3.) Give yourself permission to not be perfect.
4.) When facing rough times try and look to the bigger picture.
5.) Make time for you and your husband as a couple and rekindle the romance on a regular basis.
6.) Don't feel guilty for asking your husband to parent your child. It takes 2 to make a child and also 2 to raise the child.
7.) Surround yourself with friends that don't judge and can be a good sounding board no matter what you are going through.
8.) Take time to reflect on what you have to be thankful for everyday. It keep the air around you positive.
Also:
If I had to change the foundation of who I am as a person to keep my husband then I would rather be single.
The last Rebecca to comment HIT.THE.NAIL.ON.THE.HEAD. Bravo!!! It is never acceptable in any relationship to let go of your own identity for someone else. Yes, that includes your husband AND your children. You were your own person before any of that came into your life, and the commitment to marriage and a family should make you MORE complete, not strip away your self-respect. If you are confident in the foundation you've made for yourself, and the decisions you have made TOGETHER with your spouse, you enjoy an intimacy that goes far beyond what happens under the sheets. You speak of unconditional love, yet NONE of your points support this. Unconditional love goes BOTH ways, and to make woman feel that the ball should ONLY be in their court, that they are the only ones responsible for a successful marriage and family, only drives home the very opposite of what you're trying to convey. Marriage is a commitment from all parties involved (yes, your children as well), to make it through this life TOGETHER. Yes, there will be sacrifices from the part of everyone involved at some point in the journey, but if one person is unhappy and feels that they carry the burden of making everyone else happy, then NO ONE can truly enjoy themselves. You absolutely have to look at the bigger picture. When your children demand more attention when they're younger, when you're faced with a new job, when you're hit with an unexpected financial burden, etc. When you get married and have a family, it just isn't about only you anymore (for EITHER spouse).
Hi,
Sarah from Anonymous8. I like the way this discussion is turning. I like what both Rebeccas said. It is a team effort. A partnership. You are right. However, the only thing you can control is your own thoughts and actions. You can ask your husband to do things and he may or may not.
Funny, but I ran this by at least 5 friends, all married 15-20 years, and they all are modern women, some working with six figure careers, some SAHM and they all nodded at every point. Maybe it's the years of marriage that do this – make it real practical, because every one of us has been through some super-hard times in our marriages.
I did not mean it to come off so 50s-ish. Lesson learned. I am just thinking about it from my perspective as a woman. What I can control. What I try to understand. My expectations and hopes – of my spouse and my children – those are different.
Hope every one has a good Saturday!
Thanks,
Sarah Baron
Ok so if I had perused the website first, I would not have been nearly as surprised by this post. Anonymous8: Advice Your Mother-In-Law Would Give You, if She Had Access to Multiple File Photos Featuring Inanimate Objects in Front of Shaved Vaginas.
Very funny, Sara. I love that comment!
Sarah
Wow! so from Miranda's post
"I’m NOT going to begrudgingly have sex with my husband. Ever. And especially not if I’m still doing the lion’s share of the work to make it happen (i.e. seeing to his needs before my own, maintaining my body hair for his satisfaction, discussing his day the minute he walks in the door when I may not have even been able to brush my teeth that day). While I do think that sex is important to a marriage, I think it’s more important that the partners feel connected through that act. If one person isn’t into it, it’s not good for either of them. Unless the man is from the Victorian era and views women as his possession. Or a rapist in disguise."
There are times I'm tired and you know what? I rally and once things get going I totally get in to it and don't ever regret it. In fact, for me, it pretty much garauntees a stress release and a good nights sleep. That is a bonus for me, and him too. There is an angry disconnected cycle that can develop when "I'm too tired" from EITHER PERSON keeps coming up. So turn the tables, imagine he is either working or a stay at home dad (I know more than a few). If we are home together in the evening and he turns me down night after night, don't you think there may be at least some hurt feelings or resentment there? To say that I will go the extra mile to make love with a guy that still rocks my world even when I start out on the sleepy side is akin to a rapist is, well, is pretty offensive. I think the point was to make an effort to clear your head and give a chance to remember why you like it in the first place. I pretty much can promise I'm older than you, with 3 kids. Been tired…get it. Also know what I'm talking about. Do what you want and good luck. We have 3 kids, two pretty high powered careers, lots of responsibility. We have made it through the time that most people don't and for that, I'm totally thankful. BTW, I don't turn him down, and he does't turn me down either….ever (remember, don't be sexist and assume he is the initiator, in my house is it 50/50). This was not always the case, this was a lesson learned on both our parts.
I think that there is a world of difference between having teenagers/older children (which I gather is the case if someone has been married 15-20 years), and having infants and preschoolers. I think that, just like childbirth, it's easy to forget how things are when children are at an age where they demand so much attention, and need us to do so many things for them on a minute to minute basis. Even when your kids are starting school, it's hard to imagine those days when you barely had time to brush your teeth, or you had a newborn baby attached to your body 24/7. I don't know of a single mom of a baby or toddler (and I know quite a few), that doesn't struggle with a non-existent sex drive or complete and utter exhaustion (and sometimes frustration) on a daily basis. And I have yet to find an exception to these sentiments, I honestly haven't. Yes, as the kids get older, I can completely see how the things on this list could make more sense. But there is absolutely a transition period before you can just "get back" to a world where you even HAVE enough time to find the razor AND the time to trim your lady bits.
RebeccaP,
Yes, I do remember the days when the breakfast dishes didn't get done until 8pm. I know it is exhausting. I've been there. Several times.
I think your comment is perfect because it brings us full circle – like I said on the post, these are things I wish someone had said to me when I was in the young kid trenches… almost sat me down, shaken me, gotten me to repeat after them… so that I could remember perspective.
Thanks for your comments… and for the discussion. All of this is healthy, in my view, because it sparks conversation and thinking. It brought me back to when my kids were little little – all the wonder and fun and exhaustion.
Sincerely,
Sarah
totally get your point, but my youngest is 5 yrs old, FYI. So, toddler? No, but teenager, not even close.
hot mama–
I'm almost beyond the point of responding. Almost. But I have an overwhelming urge to shout "YOU DON'T KNOW MY LIFE." Which is completely true. You *don't* know my life, yet you sit in judgment of me and my decisions and my marriage. I don't judge you and yours, so why should you assume that my marriage won't make it because of what isn't happening between my sheets? That's incredibly rude of you. It's a moment in the grand scheme of our marriage. It won't last forever. I know this. He knows this. We're good. Thanks for your concern.
To add to that, in the name of the glorious overshare, I'm not one who can "fake it until I make it." It turns out to be just faking it. Which isn't good for either of us. My husband and I have spoken at length about how, unless we feel connected mentally and emotionally, we're not going to connect physically. We don't want that to become the only connection we have to one another. So, yes, we're working on our marriage and adapting to our new family of three. And at this point, we understand that while we're figuring this out, there are some areas that are going to be lacking.
Again, thanks for your concern.